The Opportunity Cost to get a Masters or PHD in Meteorology

05   Dec ,  2011 | 24
comments

This is a question that comes up a lot in Meteorology.   What is the opportunity cost to get a Masters or PHD in meteorology?  Does work experience matter more versus a higher education in Meteorology? Here’s my honest answer…work experience! This post will specifically focus on the operational forecasting sector in Meteorology.  And it is generally geared towards entry-level candidates to mid level career professionals.

I personally only have a Bachelors degree in Meteorology.   So I can only speak from my own experience of hiring meteorologists and seeing others being hired in the weather space.

In my opinion, employers usually weigh work experience more versus having a Masters or PHD in meteorology for operational forecasting jobs.  If it were research or modeling-focused positions in meteorology, I would probably say a Masters or PHD  is a much bigger factor.   However, one sector that may be unique is within the Energy industry.  I’ve noticed a lot of Senior level energy trade floor meteorologists have Masters or PHD’s with lots of relevant work experience too (see what the World of Energy Trade Floor meteorology is all about).  I was one of the lucky few that only had a BS degree.

Most employers “prefer” (not require) a Masters or PHD meteorology degree for operational meteorology jobs.  Ideally they want the best of both worlds… they want you to be super smart, have tons of forecasting experience, and communicate well so they can spend less time training you.

But the honest truth is…you can get any job in operational forecasting (in any sector) you want with a Bachelors degree in meteorology.  You just have to deliver the goods.   In TV weather, you can generally walk on the job without a degree as long as you can talk the talk and walk the walk. (See my thoughts on this, here).

And for those seeking a Masters degree in meteorology, I’ve seen this particular scenario play out not just in meteorology, but in many fields:  A BS graduate in meteorology will try and find a job.  They’ll search and search and (in this job market) could very well come up empty handed.  So they think it’s best to go back to school (wait out the job market) and get a Masters degree.  And when they graduate, they see the job market hasn’t improved (but is now worse).

I’ve seen a lot of people get burned this way because they became disconnected from the job market.   Plus they were out more cash and time with less operational forecasting experience.

My advice is…if you are planning on getting a Masters degree in Meteorology (or PHD) in Meteorology, specifically for getting a job in the operational forecasting sector, you need to focus on two things:

1) Getting into the right school:  Don’t waste your time applying (or attending) highly “research-focused” schools.  Focus on schools that will give you the tools necessary to help make you a better operational forecaster and also stand out from the competition.   You can view the Top 5 operational forecasting schools in meteorology, here.

2) Make sure you stay connected to the job world.  Keep developing contacts, crashing weather conferences, and possibly even interning/working part time at local companies that you are genuinely interested in.   You should stay connected with market players and when you’re ready to apply for jobs…you wont just “Send a Resume”.

And just so you’re clear…I’m not against anyone getting their masters or PHD in Meteorology.  I’m just making the case that in today’s economic climate work experience seems to matter more than a higher level degree for operational forecasting.   And I can definitely understand the frustration of why you would go get a Masters when there’s a limited amount of meteorology jobs and so many applicants.

What’s also interesting is there is definitely an internal struggle that goes on even within degreed meteorologists.   I’ve personally witnessed PHD meteorology graduates apply to entry-level operational forecasting positions.  I’ve also witnessed folks who were laid off and have a good amount of experience apply to the same positions.  And many times the employer will hire either the PHD grad (or more likely the experienced candidate) which unfortunately leaves many entry-level meteorology graduates in the dust!

Think about the deal for the employer right…you get to pay experienced and/or highly educated folks at an entry-level salary!   The employer also doesn’t want to spend time training folks for a long period of time.  That’s why entry-level folks really need to step up their game and compete.  That means get all the experience you can with internships and relevant work experience (while you’re in school).

Unfortunately, that’s the job market we’re in right now!  And its not just meteorologists that are affected either.  For example, I’ve heard that Ivy-league educated lawyers who have passed the Bar exam are applying to paralegal positions.  It’s a mess everywhere.

Bottom line, in this economy, I believe having relevant work experience seems to matter more than a Masters or PHD degree in meteorology (for operational forecasting).  If you can swing a Masters/PHD degree AND relevant work experience in meteorology…you’re definitely standing out.  And of course there is another very important factor other than just education and experience that matter to your employer: personality, personality, and personality.  People want to work with people they like to be around.   I’ll discuss personality in detail in another post.

Until then, would love to get your experience and perspective when you applied (or are applying) for operational forecasting meteorology jobs…especially in today’s economic climate.   What are employers focusing on these days? (Photo credit: d-god)

Posted by AJ on December 5, 2011

  • Jamie

    I guess it makes sense why I’m not getting any entry level jobs. I’m an entry level graduate with not much experience and I’m having trouble finding a meteorology job. I’ve been waiting 6 months and I have come up short and am considering going back to do my Masters. Thanks so much for this post…it really put things in perspective for me.

  • Anonymous

    Thanks Jamie. Yea its pretty tough out there right now. Just make sure to evaluate all your options including the “financial” aspect of getting a Masters or PHD degree. Good luck!

  • Curtis

    I was having this very discussing at lunch today, and made every point you did!!! Then I come and find you posted a blog about it, so its pretty ironic. I have a question for you….you’ve stated that you have hired meteorologists before….tell me in your hiring opinion….if a resume came across your desk, and there wasn’t much experience there, but you called the person anyway and found out they had an amazing passion, and you were astounded with their passion….would you hire them off of that, if they knew their stuff? You’ve said before, you can’t “see” passion on a resume….but if that person got a call and you heard it…..what would your hiring mind tell you?

  • Anonymous

    Hey Curtis, thanks for your comment! Funny that you were discussing the very same topic today. I’ll be happy to answer your question. I wouldn’t hire anyone just off their passion. It’s a great thing to have…don’t get me wrong..but I don’t think an employer can base their decision to hire someone just off passion alone. You have take into account all the other factors…education, experience, how much training would be required, personality, their career goals, and more. The candidate needs to bring some value to the table too…in addition to their passion :)

    So to answer your question…passion is important, but it’s not the only factor to “hire them”. You have to communicate that passion into how you can bring value to the company and back it up from previous examples and/or achievements.

    Hope that helps!

    AJ

  • Curtis

    Thank you for replying to my post. One last question, with selling achievements, how much stock do you put into the national forecasting competition, and as far as national ranking in that contest, where is your cutoff for a good forecaster?

    • Anonymous

      Great question. I think everyone has their own personal opinion on this as there’s no real standard to judge who is a “good” forecaster by how you place in a forecasting contest. But if you did come in say the top 10 in a national competition, it doesn’t hurt to emphasize that on your resume for entry level positions.

      To answer your question: National forecast contests are part of your “experience” as a student so it’s great to mention it if you did well. But in my opinion, what counts more is your internship and/or work experience while in school.

      Hope that helps….great questions…keep ‘em coming Curtis!

      AJ

  • Jeff Nelson

    I’m in this predicament right now. After I got my Bachelor’s I searched everywhere for a position and came up empty handed. I’m in air quality right now dealing a lot with meteorological instrumentation, but little forecasting, which is where I would much rather be. I apply to jobs weekly and have yet to hear anything. I made the decision to go back and get my Master’s so I could at least stay relevant in the field since I could not find a job. As I am still applying for other jobs I do continue to get passed over and I feel it is based on the lack of experience. I’m hoping the Master’s will count as “experience” once I am through and it will open at least one door. But it has been incredibly frustrating.

    • Lisa

      I’ll trade you places! I worked in forecasting for about two years and decided it wasn’t for me. Research is where I belong, instrumentation would also be cool. Anyways, I got my Masters but these jobs are still looking difficult to get. Many places seem to now want PhDs.

      • Anonymous

        Maybe I can coordinate a switch ;)

        AJ

  • Anonymous

    Hey Jeff, thanks for sharing your predicament here. I’m sure there are many folks in the same boat and they are frustrated too. I’m hoping the Masters will help you too…and hopefully you’re going to a school that is “operationally-focused”.

    Have you tried to get some internships or part time work as a forecaster in your local area? Even if it means shadowing someone in an office ….the more you are exposed to forecasting, the better it is.

    From an employer perspective…if you’re interested in forecasting…most folks want to see “forecasting” experience….so see if you can get some internships/shadow people for free while you’re doing your Masters program…or even better a part time/contract gig! Hope that helps!

    Best of luck,

    AJ

  • http://www.linkedin.com/in/llrasmussen Raz Rasmussen

    I thought you might find this interesting, from one of Georgetown’s Center on Education and the Workforce studies:

    http://www9.georgetown.edu/grad/gppi/hpi/cew/pdfs/whatsitworth-complete.pdf

    38: LOWEST AVERAGE EARNINGS BOOST FROM OBTAINING A GRADUATE DEGREE

    Major %Boost
    ——————————————
    Atmospheric Sciences and Meteorology 1
    Studio Arts 3
    Petroleum Engineering 7
    Oceanography 11
    Mass Media 11
    Advertising and Public Relations 12
    Pharmacy Pharmaceutical Sciences and Administration 13
    Forestry 15
    Computer Engineering 16
    Miscellaneous Education 16

    AS & Met is also #10 in the top 10 majors with highest employment rates (98%). Of course so is Astronomy & Astrophysics (100%!) which I find surprising (knowing lots of these myself). But they are only considering Bachelor’s degrees, and an Astronomy bachelor’s would involve a lot of math and computer work, which is pretty marketable. Their employment figures do NOT mean employment in the same field as the degree.

  • Anonymous

    Hey Raz, wow thanks for sharing this! This report really made my point valid huh? A 1% major boost in earnings for folks who get a graduate degree in Meteorology vs for example a 93% earnings boost for those folks who got a graduate degree in Chemistry. That stat right there is definitely not worth the opportunity cost. Interesting study. Thanks again for sharing Raz!

    AJ

    • http://www.linkedin.com/in/llrasmussen Raz Rasmussen

      Of course that doesn’t necessarily mean all the jobs are IN meteorology. They’re just looking at what graduates of different fields are earning. But I’d think most people getting graduate degrees in Meteorology are working in the field.

      • Anonymous

        Yea exactly. The report says anyone with the graduate degree working in the “labor force”. Could mean anything. It would be interesting to see how many degreed meteorologists (whether bachelors or masters) are working in a “meteorology” sector vs “non-meteorology” sectors. That would be the “real” employment rate of meteorology in my opinion.

        Aj

        • http://www.linkedin.com/in/llrasmussen Raz Rasmussen

          There isn’t data on specific job titles, but they do have tables for where different majors end up. Atmospheric Sciences and Meteorology undergrads:

          by “industry”:
          LS (33) (Life & Physical Sciences)
          COMP (10) (Computer Services — incl programming, statistics)
          OFF (9) (Office)
          FIN (8) (Finance)
          MGMT (7) (Management)

          by “occupation”:
          PUB (18) (Public Administration)
          PROF (15) (Professional Services)
          INFO (14) (Information Services)
          MAN-d (10) (Manufacturing-durable)
          EDU (9) (Education)

          In the private sector, there are probably a lot of meteorology jobs that might be classified as management, finance (energy trading meteorologists?), or computing. It’s very confusing because there doesn’t seem to be a standardized way to classify occupations. Some of this comes from census data, and you could be classified totally differently depending on whether you say “meteorologist”, “professor”, “television broadcaster”, “computer analyst”, etc.

          From the other perspective, people actually employed as “Atmospheric or Space Scientists” have educational backgrounds like this (from Bureau of Labor Statistics, http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_table_111.htm):

          Less than high school diploma: 0
          High school diploma or equivalent: 0
          Some college, no degree: 7.0%
          Associate’s degree: 5.2
          Bachelor’s degree: 47.1
          Master’s degree: 25.3
          Doctoral or professional degree: 15.5

          (whereas physicists and astronomers for example have 75% or more with Master’s or PhD.)

          • candacallais

            These stats are very interesting. It makes sense that the largest segment of professional mets are those with a bachelor’s degree. It is the foundation of everything else whether one has a higher degree or not. Thanks!

        • The Weatherman

          Hi, AJ Can you make a post about how long it will take to graduate each level degree (B.S. Masters Phd etc…)

          Thanks,
          The Weatherman

          • The Weatherman

            Sorry AJ, Can you mention the requirements(credit hours and everything).

          • Anonymous

            Hi, the Weatherman…I’m not sure how to answer that question because it depends on each person individually. But in general…it takes 4 years to graduate a BS degree…2 years for a Masters, and 3+ years for a PHD in Meteorology. In terms of credit hours, etc…each university is different. I’d advise you take a look at the university website of your choice and see the credit hours there.

            Thanks,

            AJ

          • The Weatherman

            Thanks so much AJ

  • candacallais

    I considered a masters upon completing my B.S. in Atmospheric Science at the University of Utah in 2010. Until a month prior to graduation I had no idea where I would be in six months. Ultimately I took a job as a wind meteorologist at Iberdrola Renewables in Portland. It just sounded like a good choice and a great opportunity to get my foot in the door in the renewable energy industry as a new grad. At the time I had applied (and been accepted) to University of Wisconsin-Madison Meterology masters program. I also applied to Texas A&M but wasn’t accepted. The UW-Madison invitation did not include any assistantship (research or teaching) and they made it clear to me this was due to funding cuts. One thing I failed to do to improve both my chances of getting in and getting a decent assistantship was exactly what Ankit mentions in his post about not simply just sending a resume, but in my case don’t just send a grad school app.

    I agree that work experience counts for a lot, and often more than simply a piece of paper (not that degrees aren’t important…they are insofar as they demonstrate competence and foundational understanding especially to employers who don’t know you personally and your unique skillset). It’s often tough to network with potential employers while you’re cloistered in the “ivory tower” of academia, unless of course you are looking for a career in research and/or teaching. This is another reason heading into a career after the B.S. can be a wise choice.

    Eventually I’d like to pursue a masters degree if my life situation allows it as it is a personal goal of mine. I also have a goal of eventually moving into a Trading Floor Meterologist position at an energy firm down the road (Houston or Portland). My experiences working with realtime traders and the trade floor environment as a wind meteorologist I feel is a big step in that direction. I would say knowledge, communication and confidence are the three most important skills (in no particular order) to be a successful energy met. I am not always going to be right but I can always convey confidence to the traders that I am giving them my best take on the weather and how it may affect their decisions.

  • RG

    I didn’t receive my undergraduate degree in atmospheric science, or any science for that matter. I’m considering taking classes in order to be a candidate for an M.S. in meteorology. Weather has been a passion since I was a kid and I really think I’d like to obtain the proper credentials to do severe weather research. I’d also be interested in climate change and how it will affect businesses.

    Do you think such a venture is worth it? I’d be combining work experience, with this science degree to change careers and propel myself forward.

    -RG

  • ChrisJustusWX

    Hi AJ, I’m a broadcast Meteorologist who one day hopes to move on to another area of Meteorology. I have my 4 year BS in Meteorology. My employer will cover 80% of the cost if I decide to get my Masters, how do you feel about the online Applied Meteorology MS at Mississippi State? I’ve never felt good about the online MS State stuff but I have heard more people trying it. Is it worth the time and cost?

    • freshAJ

      Hey Chris, thanks for your question. I think if you want to stay in the broadcast meteorology field…it might help from a perception point of view. And of course you’ll continue to learn more. I think it wouldn’t hurt to continue this route if you’re staying in TV, especially if most of it is being paid for.
      But personally, I think if you’re thinking of heading into another area of meteorology (private sector or government), I’m not sure that you’ll receive the same credibility. And it might not be worth the time and cost. That’s my two cents.
      AJ